Is the Peugeot 508 France's Chrysler 200?

"Amoore100" (amoore100) 12/22/2016 at 23:44 • Filed to: Late Night Musings, Peugeot, Chrysler

2

30

I know that’s like comparing apples to oranges, but let’s take a step back and consider this for a sec.

First off, both had rather poor predecessors. I know 407 fans, hear me out here, but objectively, the 407 was not that great compared to, say, the contemporary Mondeo and Passat. Likewise, I think we can all agree that the third gen Chrysler Sebring was total and utter unadulterated shit. Both the 407 and Sebring also attracted the uninformed, often elderly crowd who didn’t know or care that better options existed and drove these shitboxes accordingly.

Interestingly, the proportions of the 407 and Sebring were somewhat similar as well with an upwards slant towards the rear and a short tail.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Second off, the new 508 and 200 represent somewhat of a new beginning for brands which were ailing in the mid to late 2000s. For Peugeot, the 508 was one of the first cars under its new philosophy of cars which aren’t completely awful. For Chrysler, the second 200 (the first is lumped with the Sebring) marked one of their first collaborations with the Italians.

Moreover, these two new sedans follow a similar design language just as the 407 and Sebring did. Instead of upwards sloping truncated rear ends, these are both cars with strong shoulder lines (a la Volvo) which run the full length of the side with reasonably tapered and handsome rear ends that are almost fastback-esque.

Unfortunately, although both sought to return their respective marques back to competitiveness, the cars individually have failed to make it far beyond their home markets and are also commonly used as rental fodder.

That said, the 508 seems to have had more success than the new 200, having had a production run from 2011 to now with enough interest to merit a mid-cycle refresh, whereas the Chrysler has only incited the anger of Marchionne and been cut short after just two years.

What do you think, Oppo? Is the 508 really France’s 200 or is one better than the other? Does the 508 have all the factory issues and complaints that the 200 does? I know that I, for one, wouldn’t kick a new 508 estate out of bed if it came to me ;)

Thoughts?

not for canada - australian in disguise > Amoore100 12/22/2016 at 23:48

2

I feel really bad for the 200. If it was anyone else other than FCA building it, it would be an excellent car. But of course, FCA just had to fuck things up.

Oh well, at least the world still has the LX platform cars, which seem to be the only actually decent things that FCA make nowadays. I guess the Ram’s pretty alright too.

Amoore100 > not for canada - australian in disguise 12/22/2016 at 23:54

1

Hard to say. The Malibu is basically a non-FCA 200 and I’m pretty sure it ain’t selling anywhere close to the Fusion, let alone the Cam-cord.

The LXers are lovely. I do like the GC as well, I just wish it had less issues (heard many lemon law complaints about them). The Pacifica too, with the Hybrid, should be pretty nice. I like it, and I’m a pretty steadfast Ody guy (the old ones at least; the new ones are getting increasingly worse and uglier).

Spridget > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 00:00

1

Slightly irrelevant, but why is Chrysler still a brand? They only make the 200, 300, and Pacifica, and have no clear brand identity. Turn the Pacifica into the Dodge Caravan, 200 into Neon, and either axe the 300 or turn it into the Fiat 130 2.0.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 00:00

1

If the 200 were styled in a more muscular manner and then sold as the Dodge Monaco, it probably would have sold like hotcakes. The 3.6 equipped 2nd gen 200 was rather quick (0-60 in 5.7), and with firmer suspension and more attitude, it would have actually stood a fighting chance.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 00:01

1

I think part of the problem is 200 is just a lot smaller than the competition. Aside from the Fusion. The Accord Malibu Camry Legacy, and Maxima are all just plan bigger, or at least the look it.

Amoore100 > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 12/23/2016 at 00:06

0

Wow, 5.7 secs? Now I want one. Not sure if Monaco is a great name, though.

Amoore100 > Spridget 12/23/2016 at 00:09

1

It was meant to be a standard car brand allowing Dodge to carry the performance torch, but that evidently was not what Marchionne wanted. I think they should have kept SRT as their performance arm, let Dodge be the standard brand, and positioned Chrysler as near-luxury like Buick, Lincoln, etc. I still want that Fiat 130 2.0 though ;)

Vítor > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 00:21

1

The 508 is a very average car. Not bad by any means, and the facelift did it wonders both in appearance and quality. Is a solid 60, 70%. Not the best, but not the worst. Looks fantastic in brown and in SW form tho

404 - User No Longer Available > Spridget 12/23/2016 at 00:23

1

Well they can’t turn the 200 into a Dodge, because that’d be a Dart. And the Dart itself is getting the boot as well.

404 - User No Longer Available > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/23/2016 at 00:24

1

You mean the Altima right, Maxima is a full-size against the Impala.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 00:32

1

To be fair, who really remembers that Monaco instead of the legendary Bluesmobile?

Amoore100 > Vítor 12/23/2016 at 00:35

0

Nice to hear someone with an international perspective! Well, the 200 is by no means a bad car either, just an oft-overlooked one in a field of many better.The 508 at least has wagon and brown (and manual) going for it, though.

Amoore100 > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 12/23/2016 at 00:37

1

I do? Besides, I really don’t think that anyone outside of our community knows that this thing was a Monaco, to them it’s just “the Bluesmobile”.

Maybe that’s what they should have called it. The Dodge Bluesmobile.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 00:41

1

I think Monaco would be more appropriate than Coronet. There aren’t many options otherwise (who would want to buy a 2017 Dodge Diplomat or a 2017 Dodge St. Regis?).

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > 404 - User No Longer Available 12/23/2016 at 00:41

0

Huh I guess. The Maxima just doesn’t seem as big as an Impala. That might have more to do with my Imaga of the names than anything

Amoore100 > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 12/23/2016 at 00:46

0

Oooooh, I’d buy a new Dodge Dip if it looked like this

sans Chrysler badging, of course.

MultiplaOrgasms > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 00:49

2

No. Just no. The original 130 was a giant killer. The Lexus of its day. A car capable of not only competing, but also beating Mercedes and Jaguar at their own game. A rehashed 300 isn’t in that same league. There was a reason why Lancia named theirs Thema and not Flaminia.

Amoore100 > MultiplaOrgasms 12/23/2016 at 00:51

2

I don’t care if it was FWD. Thema is sacrilege too.

Vítor > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 01:02

1

Well the 200 (Chrysler itself isn’t sold here, they have a weird dealership thing called Autostar that sells the Journey, the Durango, the RAM 2500, the T&C and I think they sell the 300) isn’t sold here, so I can really judge it. The 508 was, however it sold very, very poorly (French brands have a bad reputation in Brazil, I don’t know why). Shame it was a good car. It competes with the Fusion (which owns like 90% of the segment here in Brazil), the Altima (which sold like two units and was only sold for a year), the Passat (the euro, B8 one, which I also really like) and some Kias, I don’t know if it’s the Cadenza or the Optima. Since diesel is forbidden in passenger cars here, the 508 came with the 1,6 THP engine with 165 hp that Peugeot puts on its entire range (really, it’s on the 208, 2008, 308, 408, 508 and on the 3008). Great engine, but it was low on power in comparison with the Fusion’s Ecoboost and the Passat’s TSI.

duurtlang > Amoore100 12/23/2016 at 04:02

3

From what I’ve read the 508 is a decent car. It doesn’t stand out, but it’s fine. The 407 was bad, the 406 great. So that’s a big difference from Chrysler; Peugeot had a good midsize car until 2004 or so, Chrysler until, what? 1970?

Another thing to consider is the competition of the 508. They’re doing bad as well. The whole non-luxury large car segment. Ford Fusion/Mondeo (which is worse than before the international unification), Renault Laguna, VW Passat, Mazda 6, and on. I don’t even remember the last time I saw a recent Toyota Avensis (unlike a 508).

hike > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/23/2016 at 08:17

1

The Maxima (like the Murano) is a bit of an oddball. It’s bigger and higher priced than the Altima, but not as big as either an Avalon or an Impala. I’m not really sure it has a direct competitor.

Amoore100 > Vítor 12/24/2016 at 00:48

0

I think French cars just sell poorly anywhere outside France since they’re usually decent, but not considerably better than other, cheaper options.

The Fusion/Mondeo is probably much better than the 508 in most respects, especially in engine choices since you’ve noted that Pug offers one petrol motor. So you don’t have the almighty Toyota Camry/Honda Accord down there? Seems kind of weird considering it’s a best seller everywhere else in the world. Yeah, the B8 is sooooo much nicer than the NMS, I’m jealous :3

Amoore100 > duurtlang 12/24/2016 at 01:00

0

True on that point, the 406 was simply mighty, not to mention the gorgeous Pinin coupe. Chrysler you could say had the K-car line-up in the ‘80s which, while pretty poor, was the best of the domestics until the Taurus came along.

That’s interesting, you’re in the Netherlands, right? What sells more there? Are you in on the CUV craze or is it just the typical B and C-Segment hatches that eat the market share?

Vítor > Amoore100 12/24/2016 at 06:37

1

Both the Camry (which is actually JDM here) and the Accord are only sold in their most fancy, V6 only version, so although they technically compete in the segment they are quite a bit more expensive. Just so you can have an idea, of the 452 “executive” sedans sold here in November, 410 of those were Fusions, 15 were Passats, 8 were Legacys, 7 were Accords, 3 were Camrys and the rest is Korean. The 508 sold 0 units.

One segment which Peugeot should be selling better is the compact hatchback, because the 208 is a fantastic little car, especially with the 1,2 3 cylinder engine. Miles better in my opinion than the poorly built, extremely cramped Fiesta, and a much better value for money than the overpriced Fit/Jazz. Also, together with the 500 Abarth, they are the only one with a proper sport version (which uses, guess what, the 1,6 THP)

duurtlang > Amoore100 12/24/2016 at 07:05

2

We’re into the crossover shopping cart craze as well. Not as much as other countries though. I suspect it has to do with our steep emissions taxation, crossovers emit more than similar size normal height cars, so they’re considerably more expensive due to taxation.

Agreed about the 406 coupe. I own one for a reason.

Amoore100 > Vítor 12/24/2016 at 08:56

1

Wow, well, I guess it makes sense for the executive market to be so small over there since a large saloon car that isn’t wearing a prestigious badge is probably not terribly useful in a third world country. Nice to hear that you get the 208, though. Those are awesome and it’s refreshing to hear that they have an edge on most of their competitors, if not the market share.

Vítor > Amoore100 12/24/2016 at 10:14

1

That’s true about the badge. Put a nice German badge on the hood and the sales double. The executive premium market here is more than double size of the “normal” one. Much more competitive too. Good enough for Audi, Mercedes, BMW e J/LR to open factories here.

http://carplace.uol.com.br/sedas-premium-mais-vendidos-em-novembro/

RT > Amoore100 12/25/2016 at 04:14

1

Interesting, I might as well add to this from my perspective.

duurtland is absolutely right about the quality of its predecessors, Peugeot’s only misstep was the nasty 407 (the 406 was great), while Chrysler screwed up nearly everything since the fuel crisis.

And as far as success goes, the 508 isn’t even famous for being a fleet car, it’s just there. The 200 is an unpopular midsize car in a market where they sell well, while the 508 is one in a market where they don’t. It wasn’t always like this, but these days the most successful midsizers in Europe are the luxury ones.

Remember though, French brands are still popular outside of France, but their smaller cars are usually much more successful lately.

Also Chrylser’s presence here is a bit weird too…

Amoore100 > RT 01/03/2017 at 23:42

1

I honestly find it rather odd that family saloons sell so poorly in Europe when things like the venerable 405 and Ford Mondeo sold in the millions just twenty or thirty years ago. Where has that market gone? Are fuel prices really that much worse than back then? Or has everyone just gone and realized that monospaces (i.e. MPVs) are a much, much more efficient and practical body-style?

Again, it’s awesome to hear the Frenchies are doing well overseas but it’s odd that they should be doing it with 208s, Clios, and C3s rather than things like the mighty 504 which conquered Africa half a century ago!

RT > Amoore100 01/04/2017 at 09:54

1

These family saloon cars sold extremely well in the past, but I think crossovers and SUVs replaced most of that market share in the 2000s. Only small people carriers are popular these days, most of the big ones have gone the way of the dodo despite being briefly popular in the 90s. Don’t forget though, luxury midsize saloons (BMW, Mercedes etc) are still very popular. These are just trends anyway, the next 504 could happen sooner than you’d expect.

Also random fact: both my grandparents owned 504s in Africa. One of them even had (mechanical) fuel injection, I think my mother learned to drive in that one.